Comments on: An open letter re: the Iron Ring

By: Wayne Mitchell

Fri, 24 Oct 2014 00:06:52 +0000

I was a practising engineer for more than 30 years, and have been proud to wear an iron ring since my graduation in 1970. But I agree the wording of the Obligation is outdated, and much of the trappings of the “Private Ceremony” are a Victorian relic. I dare say most graduates think the ceremony is silly too, but endure it as a “rite of passage” in order to obtain the ring. How many engineers, once they graduate, are ever involved in the “Fellowship of the Ring” again (if I may steal a phrase)? Time is passing the Society by. During my career I have observed most Professional engineering associations adopting mandatory Ethics Policies, and mandatory exams on those policies, which would be largely unnecessary if The Obligation had any enduring meaning in engineers’ lives. It should be modernized, and publicized, and engineers should be reminded of it regularly, as doctors are with the Hippocratic oath (of which there are also modernized versions}.

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By: John McMurray, P. Eng

Tue, 28 Jan 2014 16:12:37 +0000

APEGA, which supports this “traditional wording” created an Earth Science Ring in 1975. If there was no Earth Science Ring in 1922 should there be one now?

I am actually surprised how “diverse” (not misogynist or racist) the oath is given that it was written in 1922. If the traditional wording required a radical rewrite I can understand more resistance to changing, but all that is needed it to strike three small words that would not change the intent or solemnity of the oath. I never really noticed the inclusion of God in ’89 when I got mine, but I wouldn’t have noticed their absence either.

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By: honz

Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:53:23 +0000

I believe that both sides of this argument are completely valid.

Comments:
@ Nazim: “If I was given a ring with a different shape than previous rings I would feel cheated”
-> The ring is of different shape, composition and manufacturing than those which preceeded it. It is NOT *hand* stamped as they were before. The composition has changed and it has been buffed to all hell. I know a few engineers who do not wear the ring, but keep it at home – ask around, have a look, feel cheated.

@ M.C. Mag Uidhir P.Eng.: “amen”!

@ Mike: “What’s next, get rid of Christmas too while we’re at it?”
-> Even judging that your post is not that old, do you not see that this Christmas is now gone too? Take your Giving Tree and wish someone some Happy Holidays… All while the secular/non-Christians will enjoy the stat holiday. In the time since your post, it has happened “I have work to do, I don’t have time to take a holiday, yet my boss is forcing me to take a holiday”. Ok, Lets ban Christmas.

@ Aytisi: Good point, with reference. I care not for a faith myself, but your point is well based.

In the end, is the “problem with society” the believe that we are all unique and precious snowflakes with delicate feelings?? What utter bullshit.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. (Orwell, 1955)

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By: Aytisi

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 06:14:19 +0000

I too have a problem with the Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer – but from the other side of the fence. My problem is with the words “I bind myself…upon cold iron.” The words “I bind myself” are the classic formulation of an oath.

I am a practicing Christian and take seriously the New Testament’s position on oaths: “Most of all…never take an oath…just say a simple yes or no” (James 5:12) and “Do not take an oath…say…simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’” (Matthew 5:34-37).

Canadian law makes explicit provision for people in my situation: I have given evidence in court without taking an oath, and I became a Canadian citizen without taking an oath. But in the 34 years since I became a Professional Engineer, I have been repeatedly denied an exemption from the 8 words that constitute the oath portion of the Ritual. Just like the ethical atheists in this forum, I’m being asked to compromise my integrity to wear an Iron Ring.

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By: canadian engineer

Sat, 22 Sep 2012 08:19:15 +0000

I believe the common phrase for this is “making a mountain out of a mole hill”

or possibly “crying over spilled milk”

or if I may be so bold “attention whore”

I personally feel great about having an iron ring.

its a shame you dont have one.

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By: Eric

Sun, 12 Aug 2012 06:15:07 +0000

Thanks for bringing up this issue. Thousand year old fairy tales have no place in the very important pledge to engineering ethics, and superstitious beliefs are very much in opposition to the foundation of scientific principles that engineering is based on.

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By: American Secular Stainless Steel Ring | The Wellington Street Post

Fri, 10 Aug 2012 06:24:07 +0000

[…] comment, typically a self-entitled engineer who feels like calling me names on the Internet. But the latest comment was … ← "Generic Eric" Has A Nice Ring To It Organic Activists Endanger Your […]

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By: American Secular Stainless Steel Ring | Terahertz

Fri, 10 Aug 2012 05:50:35 +0000

[…] comment, typically a self-entitled engineer who feels like calling me names on the Internet. But the latest comment was something […]

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By: US Version

Thu, 09 Aug 2012 05:27:25 +0000

After reading this, I did a little reading on the subject. It appears that American engineers were inspired by the Ritual of the Calling here in Canada and created their own “Order of the Engineer” in 1970. They wear a plain stainless steel ring (known simply as the “Engineer’s Ring”) that they receive in a ritual called “the obligation of the engineer.” They have changed their oath to be secular and it is much more modern to begin with than its Canadian counterpart. I quite like it. Here are the relevant links:

Main website:

http://www.order-of-the-engineer.org/

Text of the oath:

http://www.asce.org/uploadedFiles/Leadership_Training_-_New/OBLIGATION.pdf

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By: M.C. Mag Uidhir P.Eng.

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:05:49 +0000

Um … that separation of church and state thing? That is down here in the good old U. S. of A. You would like it in the U. S. of A. Anybody and their dog can call themselves an engineer. Two years at ITT Tech and you are an engineer. A year at DeVry you are an engineer. Six weeks at a Microsoft diploma mill and you can call yourself an engineer.

I am an atheist. I go to church: weddings and funerals. I don’t pitch a fit. I graduated from the University of Saskatchewan: translate its crest and it comes up as God and Country. I graduated from one of the top Enginering schools in North America: I am god damned proud of it (oops I’ve offended you). I put myself through college as an officer in the Canadian Forces. I didn’t whine because Sikhs got their own cool camouflage combat turbans. I have been to the Canadian war memorials in Ypres and Vimy. I have been in foreign countries where upon the locals find out you are Canadian and you don’t have to pay for a drink all night. Likewise I have been abroad and people find out I am Canadian and they spot the Iron Ring they know I am an engineer.

All of this has one thing in common. Respect.

Grow some yarbles and show some respect. And if you don’t like it my father, my sister, my niece, my daughter, my cousin and myself (all atheists and iron ring holders spanning 70 years and 3 generations) have one thing to say. Fuck off crybaby.

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