I left Alberta to get away from this

Ian | 8 December, 2009 | 00:32

No, you can’t go in to elementary school at lunch hours to preach to little children how they’re evil sinners who are going to hell unless they do as you say, not as you do.

A man from the Vancouver suburb of Surrey wants the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal to open his sons’ elementary school’s doors to a Bible study group.

Paul Jubenvill launched a complaint with the tribunal on Dec. 1 after the Colebrook Elementary School turned down his request for a lunchtime meeting on Christianity with whoever wanted to attend.

Jubenvill, a 35-year-old software designer, argues his freedom of religion is guaranteed under the Canadian Human Rights Act.

"We live by God’s word and the Bible. This is no different than the freedom to have a jazz club or a badminton club. There can’t be discrimination on the basis of religion," he said.

"We’re not asking the school to endorse it, we’re asking them to accommodate our needs."

Sorry, your “needs” don’t extend to using publicly funded property for your own ends. If you want your kids to learn religion, teach them at home. Letting a badminton club but not a Jesus club exist isn’t “discrimination on the basis of religion,” it’s keeping the church (especially his evangelical brand) out of a public setting.

But he at least understands a bit of what he’s advocating for:

He has no objection to Muslim or Buddhist study groups taking up school space, or any other religion.

What about atheist groups? Should we be starting atheist elementary groups?

I think Richard Dawkins would get pissed at that.

He’s pushing this as a human rights case, however I don’t remember the right to preach to kids.

Nevertheless, the Surrey School District Spokesperson reaffirmed that public schools are secular, but had this odd disclaimer:

…the rules are different among older students in high schools, where Bible study groups are supervised by teachers but are led by students.

Really? This sounds like it could be pretty concerning. I guess I have a new avenue to research.

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Categories: BC, Religion, School, Secularism, Vancouver
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9 responses

My public high school had a noon hour bible group.

Denny | 8 December, 2009 | 00:47

My public high school had a noon hour bible group. A couple friends and I managed to get our hands on a copy of LaVey’s Satanic Bible and would stand outside of the room and read quotes from it. One guy actually went to one of their meetings once with a Koran and refused to leave (something the principal backed him up on afterwards).
In elementary the public school I went to recited the Lord’s Prayer at monthly assemblies until I was in the 6th grade, when a few parents finally threatened to make a stink about it.

What concerns me even more than noon hour bible classes is that there are public school boards in Alberta that have entire schools devoted to Christianity.
I remember when Elk Island Public Schools agreed to take over the Fort Saskatchewan Christian School. It was somewhat controversial but ended up happening anyways. Now the Christian School is being built a new building by the Public Schoolboard.
On the plus side, when the public school board came in almost all the teachers from Fort Christian were fired because they didn’t have teaching certification. So at least the school is now being run by bible thumping teachers who something about teaching, rather than a bunch of bible thumping parents trying to teach subjects they’re not qualified to teach.

I would like to point out that you are a

Guy | 8 December, 2009 | 09:11

I would like to point out that you are a flaming atheist.

If you’re so against Christianity, maybe you should get out of Canada and go live in a country that wasn’t built on Christian beliefs. I’ve heard Iraq is nice.

On the other hand, if you enjoy the freedoms you are entitled in this country, then just shut up and get on with your life. If you spent half as much time working as you do complaining about Christians, you might amount to something.

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but in the Toronto

Skinny Dipper | 8 December, 2009 | 10:11

I hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but in the Toronto area, some schools do provide recess or lunchtime prayer rooms or gyms for Muslim students. Some elementary schools have small room activities every day while the gym may be used each Friday at lunchtime. Why? Students would be attending the mosque if not able to pray on Friday. A local imam or other mosque representative will lead the prayers. Participation is voluntary.

As a teacher, I have no problems with a Christian service taking place at lunchtime by a pastor, minister, or priest. The principal or another teacher or two would technically be in charge like in the situation in the paragraph above. The volunteer pastor would likely be informed of the school board rules on appropriate or inappropriate topics or messages, i.e. the pastor would not be able to mention that non-Christians are heathens and devil-worshippers or talk about abortion at the elementary level. The volunteer pastor would likely tailor his/her message to younger children anyway by talking about stories from the Bible. Participation by the students would be voluntary.

thoughtcounts Z Reply:
December 8th, 2009 at 11:28

Setting aside space for Muslim prayer makes sense because one of the tenets of Islam is prayer five times a day at prescribed times. Preventing this prayer would be an infringement of students’ ability to follow their religion. I see it as analogous to letting Jewish students wear kippahs and letting Muslim and Eastern Orthodox Christian students wear head scarves, even when school rules ban baseball caps and other hats.

Christianity, on the other hand, does not require that Bible study be done over lunch.

Ian Reply:
December 8th, 2009 at 12:13

It’s hardly justifiable to let group X pray while you deny group Y, even if their religion “requires” it (maybe the Reformed Church will just set a new guideline requiring all children to pray daily).

I’m just really appalled at the pressure on the young to join these groups (of course it makes sense if you’re trying to win converts), but I fear that sexual health and biology classes (which don’t begin until late high school) could be severely undermined by some of these groups. Further, how does a prayer group foster diversity and acceptance that we hope children can learn in school?

Angela Squires Reply:
March 11th, 2010 at 11:05

…’sexual health and biology classes’…not beginning till late high school? Bloody hell, no wonder we have std’s! I taught high school in the UK (11-18 year olds), back in the dark ages of the 70’s. Biology was part of the curriculum from 11 to 16 yrs. at my Girls Grammar School in the 60’s! We are going backwards.

On my final teaching practice in 1969 I taught human biology to 16 yr olds. The regular teacher told me reproduction was on the syllabus but I needn’t teach it if I felt uncomfortable. I reckon to this day that it was her who was uncomfortable! I taught those girls and boys everything I had learned from my parent’s bedside Family Health Book about sexual health and reproduction,(only read it because my Mum never got around to that little chat), they were spellbound. The girls told the boys to shut up being silly because they wanted to learn, it was my most successful class. I was only 5 yrs older than them! I laugh about it to this day

Two more things: Good luck in organizing an elementary atheist group.

Skinny Dipper | 8 December, 2009 | 10:23

Two more things:

Good luck in organizing an elementary atheist group. If I were a student, I would be thinking lunch recess or being stuck in a room with an atheist guru. I’d go out for lunch recess–even if it is minus 15 degrees Celcius.

I do wish to say that having a multicultural school does not mean having the absence of religion but including others where possible. If students in grade two want to create a plasticine Manger scene, that is fine. Many schools have students who are Jehovah Witnesses. They do not participate in religious or cultural celebration activities. That does not stop the other students from participating.

Ian Reply:
December 8th, 2009 at 10:56

I totally agree with multicultural teachings, I just don’t like the idea of promoting one religion above the rest.

Angela Squires Reply:
March 11th, 2010 at 10:40

I have a problem with multiculturalism because it is being used to slide all sorts of gross abuses into Canada. Multiculturalism is used to allow criminals to escape punishment. For example: genital mutilation of women, forced marriage, patriarchal abuse of females,14th Century treatment of young girls and boys, child rape, honour killing of usually young women and more. M supports religion because so many religions are interwoven into culture and thereby claim a right to be in schools, taught even via the ‘backdoor’ as in prayer groups and rooms, practiced, promulgated. AB is blatant about it but this insidious process goes on across Canada one way or another.

I don’t know what the answer is but feel that Canada needs to assert the secular nature of our society and keep religion out of schools period. Problem is education comes under provincial jurisdiction so religion slides back in via ‘God squadder’ lobbying. Perhaps we need to be more assertive, at least to all levels of Government who take the easy way out and maintain the status quo (Statistics Canada) even by neglect.

I get the feeling that Canada does not want to push the secular bit for fear of these religions/cultures so is using Multiculturalism to just let the chips fall where they may.