Comments on: Not my secularism http://terahertzatheist.ca/2013/09/10/not-my-secularism/ Science and compassion for a better world Wed, 06 Dec 2017 02:43:17 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.9 By: Indi http://terahertzatheist.ca/2013/09/10/not-my-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-39966 Wed, 11 Sep 2013 17:56:54 +0000 http://terahertzatheist.ca/?p=2775#comment-39966 It really annoys me to hear this charter referred to as a “secularism charter”, because it’s not. It’s clearly not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. A charter that does absolutely nothing about REAL cases of inappropriate entanglement between government and religion (such as funding private religious schools, having an “office of religion”, etc.) and instead selectively picks on the least empowered people in society (note that while the low-level public employees have to ditch religious accessories, elected officials and people in charge of institutions don’t) is not about secularism by sane standards. I’ll give Marois this much – at least she was honest enough to stop calling it a “charter of secularism” and start calling it a “charter of Québec values” (pardon me, “Québec values” should be in quotes, too). Sadly, most atheists and secularists I see defending this charter don’t get that, and still refer to it as a “charter of secularism” or “secular charter”. It’s not.

The best way I’ve seen it expressed came from a Québec teachers’ union, when they said (I’m translating and paraphrasing): Secularism means taking religion out of public institutions and their operations, not out of people. There is no rational justification for saying that a person cannot do a secular job in a secular way while wearing a religious accessory that does not interfere with the job. Telling someone they cannot work unless they pretend to be of a different religion (or no religion) is nothing less than unjustly denying them employment due to religious discrimination.

Making a Muslim woman remove her hijab, or a Sikh remove his dastar will not make the place that they work more secular. A doctor performing a surgery does not do a less secular and more Sikh-ish operation if they wear a dastar while doing it. A person driving a bus does not drive the bus in a more Islamic way if they do so while wearing a hijab. A clerk at the passport office does not get Judaism all over my passport by wearing a kippa.

And if I see a doctor wearing a turban, I do not assume that the government forced them to, or endorsed it any way. I, unlike most defenders of this charter, am not an idiot; I am smart enough to realize that when a man wears a turban, it is probably because that man is Sikh, not because their employer or place of employment is. So long as that man does his job and nothing but his job, and does it competently and professionally, I don’t see why his headgear should be an issue. Similarly, when a public servant has a goatee which does not have any effect on his job performance, I do not assume that the presence of said goatee means the government endorses goatees, because it has nothing to do with the job he’s doing.

This is not secularism. Secularism is supposed to be based on reason. We want religion out of government not because we hate it or it annoys us, but because we have good reasons for wanting it out of government – because it causes problems that are unncessary and can be avoided, and because it provides no real benefit by being there. We can justify secularism. We can back it up with good, solid, rational arguments. Secularism is good for [i]everyone[/i], religious or not. But this? This is unjustifiable. This is discriminatory. It’s not just that this isn’t YOUR secularism. This is not secularism at all.

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By: Ian http://terahertzatheist.ca/2013/09/10/not-my-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-39965 Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:14:24 +0000 http://terahertzatheist.ca/?p=2775#comment-39965 That doesn’t solve anything.

First, police (government employees) already wear uniforms but have won the right in the Supreme Court (IIRC) to wear religious garb (specifically turbans) during work.

Second, it makes no sense to force teachers, social workers, and others to wear uniforms. In many cases this seems far more intimidating than necessary (more akin to a totalitarian regime).

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By: Stew http://terahertzatheist.ca/2013/09/10/not-my-secularism/comment-page-1/#comment-39964 Wed, 11 Sep 2013 01:59:01 +0000 http://terahertzatheist.ca/?p=2775#comment-39964 I vote that all government employees wear uniforms. This way the only statement or belief needed, may be expressed simply by asking, “how may I help?”. Problem solved.

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